Episode Transcript

Jake Braun:

Hello everyone, welcome to Kickin' it with Kapok, a podcast about business owners' marketing struggles and solutions and other business-related topics. This is episode two, "It's Hard to Say Goodbye." No, we aren't ending our podcast already, this is a different sort of goodbye. Without further ado, I'll turn it over to Mirela to explain what we'll be talking about today.

Mirela Setkic:

Today we are going to be talking about difficulties for small businesses to hire their first employee and why that is a scary and sometimes a very challenging process for small companies. To kind of go further into detail on that topic, we have Jessica, who is one of our very first employees here at Kapok Marketing. She is one of our marketing assistants, and actually today is also her last day, so she's going to be sharing her story with us, in terms of what it feels like to be a new employee at a small company and one of the very first employees. Also, what her secret sauce is for building up a social media following for businesses.

Jake Braun:

All right, that sounds good. That sounds like it's going to make for an interesting episode, Mirela.

Mirela Setkic:

I hope so. It's all on Jessica, so we'll see what happens. No, I'm kidding. It's actually on us too, so don't worry, Jessica. It will be good.

Jessica:

All right, no pressure.

Mirela Setkic:

I feel the most pressure. I'm actually very nervous.

Jake Braun:

Why do you guys think it's hard for a small or a new business to hire that first employee? What got us to the point where we knew it was time to hire that person? Were you worried at all?

Mirela Setkic:

For us, as a company, yeah, I think we were worried. Number one, we were a new business, a small business, and we didn't really know where things were going to go. We were kind of at a point where we could take off and become something or totally crash and burn and actually ruin someone's life. When you're bringing on a new employee, yes, you're kind of presenting them with the opportunity to join a team and do exciting things but you are also kind of uprooting them from their current situation. If things don't work out, then you can maybe a little bit ruin their life, which is kind of a lot to put on your plate and be responsible for.
Also, we kind of felt a little bit insecure about how beautiful our office is, how big our team is, if the new employee is going to like us, if he or she is going to think that we're kind of a couple of losers who are sitting in this not so fancy office. Those two things were the biggest fears for myself. Then we have some clients who have also said that they're afraid that the person is not going to do as good of a job as the owner would or that they can't trust the person.
If it's a small business that has really high value items at the store and the owner hires someone and needs to go away on vacation and he or she is afraid to leave all those valuables with the employee. In some cases I guess that's a valuable fear or a justified fear but in most cases I think you're just kind of inside of your head and over thinking it. Jessica, what do you think was your biggest fear, in terms of working for a small company like us?

Jessica:

I think my biggest fear was just I knew that you guys were taking a leap of faith hiring your first employees but my biggest fear was am I going to live up to their standard. I know it kind of works both ways. You guys are expecting so much from me and you're wondering if I'm going to be satisfied working here. Then the tables are turned and I'm thinking, oh no, do I have the skillset to help them and to take this small business from their ideas and then put them into place. I think it goes both ways, really, trusting each other.

Mirela Setkic:

You're right. I never really thought about it that way. Just as there is so much pressure on us to deliver a beautiful office, an interesting job description, and all of the things that you do as an employee, I guess there's a lot of pressure for you, where you're thinking, oh my god, this is make it or break it. If I don't do my job, this company could kind of go down and it's going to be my fault.

Jessica:

Right.

Mirela Setkic:

I never actually thought about that. Even though I have been an employee at a small company before, and one of the first employees, I guess I forgot about that. I guess I did have those fears too.

Jessica:

Yeah. You kind of lose sight of my own skillset that I have. I'm wondering, am I going to live up to their standards, am I going to help them go from point A to point B. It's kind of exciting and scary all in the same sense, because we're all kind of learning at the same time, as the business is starting out and as it's growing.

Jake Braun:

I think to touch back on something you were saying earlier, Mirela, it's kind of an inflection point for most small businesses when they hire that first employee. Maybe they don't even realize it until they're looking back in retrospect. That first employee can be the person who really brings the business to the next level.

Mirela Setkic:

That's true. What is the thing that Malcolm Gladwell talks about? The tipping point. Maybe, I don't know if I can call it a tipping point but when we started Kapok, about a year ago, yeah, technically we were a real business but we felt very fake to me because we didn't have any employees. Until the first people that came onboard actually joined us, it felt very, very lonely. Then, once you came onboard and Cassie came onboard, it was like, oh my gosh, we're real. We have to do our job. People have expectations of us. It definitely made everything real.

Jake Braun:

I think that's a really great point. When Mirela and I were here alone it's easier to just get sidetracked and stuff. No one is really relying on you. Or no one's holding you accountable necessarily. Having those employees there means that it's real. You've got other people whose livelihood is on the line as well.

Mirela Setkic:

That's true. I can't just come in here and sleep on my money couch all day. Yeah, I can take a nap but before, when it was just Jake and myself, sometimes I would feel like, well, I can just take a nap. Now, I still take a nap sometimes but I don't take as many naps because it's not a good look anymore.

Jake Braun:

Now you host podcasts on the money couch.

Mirela Setkic:

Oh yeah, we are sitting on the money couch so hopefully this thing is going to be successful. Otherwise, we might have a bonfire outside with the money couch. We shall see.

Jake Braun:

One other thing you mentioned, Mirela, you touched on that you were also an employee at a small business. What do you think the difference is between owning a small business and hiring that first employee and being one of the first employees?

Mirela Setkic:

What is the difference between being an employee at a small business and then being the owner of a small business?

Jake Braun:

How would you compare and contrast those things? Is there any similarities? Is there anything that you've learned being in both of those roles?

Mirela Setkic:

That's a good question. I'm not just saying that to kind of fill up the space.

Jake Braun:

That's what I'm here for, to ask the good questions.

Mirela Setkic:

I think when I was an employee of a small business, many, many years ago, during dinosaur times, I just always knew that I could walk away. Maybe I wasn't a good employee for that small business, I have no idea. I was a freshman in college at USF and I was working part-time and I was working with an older gentleman and his grandson. It was a very small operation. It was scary but I just knew that I could walk away.
Here, now that I'm on the other side, technically as one of the owners of Kapok Marketing, yes, I can walk away but there is much more at stake. Not only monetarily but because Kapok is kind of part of my name and my identity now. I live in this area so it would be a larger sense of failure and some type of maybe a little bit of tarnishing of my image. I feel like I need to take it more seriously, and hopefully I am.

Jake Braun:

You mentioned that Kapok is kind of your name. Do you think that's something that other small business owners might struggle with when hiring their first employees, that that employee needs to kind of also represent that company or that brand to the public?

Mirela Setkic:

Yes, that's definitely real. Recently, when we were interviewing for a business development position, I definitely caught myself thinking, oh man, is this person going to be able to communicate the brand image and the brand message and the personality as well as I would. Our people going to be able to connect that person's image and reputation in the community with Kapok? Is everything going to be seamless? In marketing you want your message to be uniform. I think that's a very real fear to have.

Jake Braun:

Do you have any questions that we might want to ask Jessica about her experience as being one of our first employees?

Mirela Setkic:

You kind of touched on what the fear was of not letting us down. Did you have any other fears, or any other reservations, or anything like that? You can fill in the blank, Jake, of all the things I'm not covering.

Jake Braun:

No, that's a good question.

Jessica:

I don't think I had any reservations. I know you were mentioning as the business development person, as the face of the company. I think, as for myself, as marketing assistant, I'm sending stuff out there on social media or email marketing, or even writing blog content, I still have to take the company's brand mission and voice into account too. I think that's definitely a fear I had when I first started out. Am I going to come across the way that Jake and Mirela want me to come across for the content for Kapok Marketing?
It's definitely a real fear starting out, wondering if I'm going to be able to deliver. Then, if I'm going to be another extension of Kapok Marketing, even though I'm kind of behind the scenes as marketing assistant. It's still my content that's going out there so I think that's definitely a big fear that I had, making sure that I was on track with everything.

Jake Braun:

What were the kinds of things that you did to make sure that you understood the brand and the messaging? What would you recommend to an employee starting out at a new company, in terms of how to make sure that they get that right and they do a good job at the beginning?

Jessica:

I would definitely recommend just doing your research. Just making sure you know what's already out there for the company. If they're just starting out, they might not have a lot of blog posts, or they might not have a huge social media presence. Just talking with your employers and getting a feel for the brand and the company, you'll learn what they want to be sent out there. Then you can, in return, put that information out there yourself, just by doing research and asking questions.

Jessica:

I know a lot of new employees are very scared to ask questions, especially for a new small business. Everybody's kind of figuring stuff out but it's okay to ask questions. There's no such thing as a dumb question.

Mirela Setkic:

That's true.

Jake Braun:

Before we had Jessica, Mirela was doing most of our Instagram account. When we hired Jessica, she kind of took over on Instagram. Maybe the two of you could talk a little bit about how our Instagram account evolved during that state.

Mirela Setkic:

Yeah, we should talk about that. When we started out, obviously, I have a marketing background and a business management background. I thought, I'm going to go hard, I'm going to do all of the social media myself. When I say all of it, I mean Facebook, Google Plus, Instagram, Pinterest, Twitter, and also do our blog posts. I thought I was doing it really well and then I realized that I was doing a terrible job. Not because I don't have any skills, it's because I was also doing other things. I was helping co-run the company. As they say, I was kind of half assing it, and not intentionally.

Mirela Setkic:

When we decided to go for it and hire someone, on Instagram, for example, we had I think like 100 followers. It took me a few months to get to that point because I was just working hard, I wasn't working smart. Then we hired Jessica and another person and they were responsible for doing social media and things just took off. At that point, I kind of had a realization and thought to myself, why didn't we do this sooner. Yes, it's scary bringing on people.

Mirela Setkic:

Just to kind of go back to the previous topic. Yes, it's scary. There's a lot of uncertainty but I think that we have learned that you just have to go for it and do it and see what happens. You're never going to know unless you try it. When we brought on Jessica, you kind of just went hard and things started taking off. People were following us. People were actually talking to us on Instagram. People were coming in later on to do job interviews and they would mention our Instagram account. There's absolutely no way that would have happened had I continued to do it. Even, I think, some people are tempted to bring on someone like yourself, Jessica, and have them be responsible, quote unquote, for their social media but the owner is constantly micromanaging. I think that's also terrible.

Mirela Setkic:

We kind of try to be very hands off, let you just do your thing, which, I think, brings me to the next question, or the section where we kind of talk about your secret sauce for social media. I don't know, should we call it hot sauce, because Jessica likes hot sauce a lot. We won't call it secret sauce. We'll call it Jessica's hot sauce for setting social media stuff on fire and making it take off. Just tell us a little bit. You can just pick one platform. You can pick your favorite. I'm guessing it's Instagram.

Jessica:

Yeah.

Mirela Setkic:

You can tell us how you made it happen.

Jessica:

Okay. Yeah, you definitely guessed correctly. Instagram is, hands down, my favorite platform. I think one of the main things, and you briefly touched over it, is just not having enough time to do it. As a business owner, you're doing so many other things. You want to do good on Instagram, you want to do good on social media, but you just don't have the time. I guess kind of what set our Instagram on fire is we just had a lot of time to put into it. I had time to create good content for it, making sure that my captions were on point, they were geared to our target audience. I was going through different hashtags and finding accounts to just engage with, I think is a big thing.

Jessica:

It takes tons of time to do but just kind of being very genuine on Instagram, I think, is a good way that we grew our following. A lot of people know Kapok for our Instagram but it's because we're very true to who we are as people and who you guys are as business owners. Very just community centered. People know and love that. By putting in the work. It does take time. Great things take time but just by going in every day and liking and commenting to people. Just actually talking to them and not just scheduling posts and making sure they're going out every day. Just actually being the voice behind the Instagram account, I think made all the difference.

Mirela Setkic:

I think so too. I'm talking like I actually did any of this stuff. I think that what a lot of people experience is the quiet of starting out and not being popular. Feeling like, oh man, I'm really posting my best stuff and people are following me and then they unfollow me. No one is saying anything. I post something, I ask a question, and then no one answers my question. Did you ever have moments like that? If you did, how do you overcome those moments?

Jessica:

Yeah. I think, like with any social media account when you start it, obviously, you're follower counts are low, you're not getting any likes on your posts. It's just kind of intimidating. It definitely felt better once we hit the thousand mark on followers. We kind of felt like we made it a little bit on Instagram. Just keep working at it every day. If our goal was to get more followers, are we posting the right content that people actually want to follow and see every day? If we want more people to talk to us, are we talking to anybody? It kind of goes both ways.

Mirela Setkic:

That's a good point.

Jessica:

Yeah. If we ask a question and nobody responds, it's probably because they don't want to talk to us. Is it because we're not talking to them, or are we just liking their posts? By actually caring and commenting on their posts, and leaving meaningful comments definitely helps.

Jake Braun:

How about those accounts that are just going out there and posting the thumbs up emoji on all of the posts?

Jessica:

We definitely get a lot of those. I believe they're referred to as bot comments. People just go on and leave hundreds and hundreds of comments, probably to the point where Instagram flags them for a few hours where they can't do anymore. Just leave a full sentence. Go crazy. If somebody posts their lunch at a local coffee shop, comment on it. Say, I've had that before, no, I've never had that but I'm going to try it. Thanks for the recommendation. Just building an actual relationship with your followers makes all the difference. If you're leaving a thumbs up or a cool or a nice shot ...

Jake Braun:

"Great post, thumbs up."

Jessica:

Yeah, then that person knows, okay, you didn't actually look at my post because if you look at the post, their caption could be something really bad and there you are posting positive comments.

Mirela Setkic:

That's true.

Jessica:

They can tell. So many accounts do that. Like you mentioned, Mirela, the follow and then unfollow.

Mirela Setkic:

Yes, the heart breakers of Instagram.

Jessica:

Right.

Mirela Setkic:

They build you up and then they let you down.

Jessica:

Right, and they usually do it a couple of times so you know.

Mirela Setkic:

Yes, yes.

Jessica:

Like, okay, this person has followed me four times. We're not following you back now, then you should know it's because you keep on following me. People know if you try to do those shady things.

Mirela Setkic:

That's true. How important is it to respect the rules and the guidelines for each platform and posting appropriate content, and having a good mix of promotional and actually interesting, engaging content? You come across some accounts who are constantly, you know, buy my waist slimming thing, buy my miracle walking shoes, or whatever the case is, and that's like every single post. Then you have some people who post images that just don't look good on Instagram. What is your take on that?

Jessica:

I definitely think as a business, whether you're offering products or services, it kind of goes the same way. Majority of the time you want to post engaging content that your followers want to see. Then you also have to remember, you still have to sell to them.

Mirela Setkic:

Yes.

Jessica:

They are the bread and butter of your business. If you're constantly selling to them, they're just going to unfollow you. It's just the harsh reality. They're going to unfollow you. They're going to remember in the back of their head, this business sells to me all the time, I don't want to see their content anywhere. I think it's not just Instagram. All social media platforms are just becoming saturated with people constantly selling to them and then ads and everything. You just have to be genuine and you have to want to build relationships with your followers and actually give them value. Then, in return, they'll come. They'll remember your business as the go-to or the expert, and at the end of the day, they'll buy from you.

Mirela Setkic:

Yeah. We always tell other clients and other businesses to kind of follow the 80/20 rule, 80% interesting content and engaging things that you think that your audience wants to see or read, and 20% promotional. Obviously, you are a business and it is a given that you sell stuff, so people know that you sell, but I think social media, like you said, is about showing your personality, engaging with your audience, and kind of putting a human face onto a brand or product or service, or whatever the case is. Sell, sell, sell thing is, yeah, it sounds kind of nice if you're just looking at numbers and you want to increase your sales, but in the long run, that's all you become, is a pushy salesperson and no one wants to talk to that person.

Jake Braun:

I think this goes to one of our core philosophies of our marketing agency. Just put all the information out there of how a small business could do this if they want to do it. Then, if they have the time and they can do it, that's great. If they decide that they don't want to do all that research and learn all that content that we're giving them for free, then they can hire us to help them do it. That's really the value proposition that we offer. We don't have to be hard selling people on Instagram to get them as a client.

Mirela Setkic:

That's true. I don't even know if selling on Instagram is fun. I personally don't like when people direct message me on Instagram out of the blue, pretend that they love my smile or they think that their bathing suit will look great on me. I just think it's really weird and I know that they're probably sending the same message to everyone else. Sliding into people's DM zone on Instagram as a business is probably a little bit on the creepy side so I would do that in moderation. I don't know, we haven't really had bad experience with people sliding into our DMs.

Jessica:

Yeah.

Mirela Setkic:

Most of the stuff is, I think, nice. As a company, we've had people actually direct message us for job opportunities.

Jessica:

Right, which was really shocking.

Jake Braun:

How many job applicants have come into an interview here and we ask them, "How did you find out about Kapok Marketing? What interested you in the position?" and their response is, "Oh, well, I've been following your Instagram for like six months." It's like, wow.

Mirela Setkic:

I know. We're like, "Man, thank you Jessica. Thank you Andrea." Andrea is one of the other team members that we have here. She will probably be in a future podcast. Now she doesn't even have the option to say no.

Jake Braun:

Jessica set the precedence. Now all of our future employees are ...

Mirela Setkic:

Now we're announcing before we even ask people.

Jake Braun:

Okay, so just a couple more things on Instagram. I don't think that we mentioned that what are we up to, about 1,600 followers now. That's the kind of work that Jessica did. Mirela closed it out at about around 100 and less than a year later, Jessica-

Mirela Setkic:

A handful, 100.

Jake Braun:

That's just to show what can be done if you let someone else run with it. Maybe we should ask Jessica a few other questions not Instagram related, about just being at a marketing agency or a small business. Would you want to work at another small business?

Mirela Setkic:

Yeah, now that you're leaving us, would you do this again? Or, if you had to do it again, how would you do anything different?

Jake Braun:

You can be totally honest, you won't hurt our feelings.

Mirela Setkic:

I know, today's your last day.

Jessica:

Right, what do I have to lose?

Mirela Setkic:

Nothing.

Jessica:

Go hard. No, I think definitely working for a small business, and specifically a small marketing agency, everything's collaborative. I personally like being creative and coming up with ideas but I also like bouncing ideas off different people. I think that when you bounce ideas off other people, you're going to get something even greater in return. I think that's one of the biggest benefits of this job. In my experience here, if somebody has an idea, we're all kind of putting our all into it and then here we have this final finished product. Now we have a great idea that maybe we wouldn't have thought about prior.

Jessica:

I think, as a small business hiring more employees, I'm not a small business owner so I can't speak from that experience but just having more people on your team to contribute ideas. They want to help your business grow in the end as well. They work there too. They're not going to give you bad ideas to run you into the ground. They're not.

Mirela Setkic:

That would be pretty funny.

Jake Braun:

It's all been a joke. This isn't really even a company.

Mirela Setkic:

There needs to be a TV show where employees conspire against a small business and run it into the ground.

Jessica:

Who's to say that hasn't been done before but, for the most part, most people, they want to be a part of something.

Mirela Setkic:

That's true.

Jessica:

Myself, as an employee just starting out in the field of marketing, I'm so happy to see when I have stuff that's been published or posted on social media. It's just a good feeling. I know it's a good feeling in return because we're growing our socials, we're growing our blog, and then, in the end, we're growing our company.

Jake Braun:

Was there anything, though, you didn't expect after you got into this job and getting into a marketing agency? Was there anything that shocked you or surprised you? What were the things that were different than you expected, or were exactly what you expected?

Jessica:

I would have to say the thing that shocked me the most is maybe how open you guys were as employers for ideas or just anything in general. All of my previous jobs, I'm just the employee, I clock in, I do my work, I clock out. Here I'm excited to come to work. I know we're going to be working on something new and exciting. I know there's always going to be something going on. Just kind of the unknown of what's going to happen. I think starting out I had no idea that I would be able to contribute as much as I have to Kapok. It's just a good feeling to know that I'm not just being hired to just do slave work all day, that I get to contribute something of myself to the company.

Mirela Setkic:

That is true. Also, while I was listening to you talk, I realized that, for us as business owners, I kind of hate saying those words. People who are in charge, or whatever the case is, like a good sense of positive accountability. We have you and we have other people on the team and we cannot let you down. While at the same time, you're trying to do a good job to impress us, believe it or not, we're really trying to do a good job to impress you guys so you guys don't think that we're a loser boss, we're like a hot mess and don't know how to do anything.

Jake Braun:

That is true. One of the things that Mirela says, maybe not the case in this particular instance, but Mirela likes to tell employees that if an employee is leaving, they're really firing their boss.

Mirela Setkic:

Yes, that's why I was so sad when you told us that you were leaving. I know that it's not negative. I think that I have been convinced or assured that it's not our fault.

Jessica:

Yeah.

Jake Braun:

Sometimes it is. It might not be the case in this instance, but a lot of bosses are maybe not doing the right things and maybe their employees are saying, "I've just had enough of this boss or this situation."

Mirela Setkic:

Yeah, like Jake said, when someone resigns or quits, or whatever the word is, they're firing you as their boss, which is not a good feeling because being fired is really kind of depressing and sad and disappointing. When you told us that you were ready to move on to your next chapter and ready to move on from Kapok Marketing, I a little bit felt fired. It's not your fault but it's just the way that I approach business and owning a business. I thought, oh my gosh, what did we do. Did we fail her as a company? Is there anything that we can do?

Mirela Setkic:

It's very funny how in the beginning it starts out new business, no employees, so afraid to hire. You hire someone, it becomes something bigger than a new business. It becomes like some type of a group journey, or like an adventure. Then, in the middle of it, or at the end of it, you look at it and you realize, wow, we're all in this together. It's no more just Jake and myself, the two owners sitting here and counting their money, or whatever the case is.

Jake Braun:

Something for other small business owners to consider when you have an employee is it's a two way street.

Mirela Setkic:

Yeah, and they will change your life.

Jake Braun:

For the better or for the worse.

Mirela Setkic:

For the better. Don't focus on the worse. We've been fortunate to have hired more people over the past year and no one has changed our life for the worse. Even like some people who don't work out in the long run, they are lessons. Maybe it's something that we didn't do the best and maybe that's why that person didn't work out. Or maybe it just wasn't a good match. Even a bad, quote unquote, experience is a good lesson. Business owners and other people who are in charge of hiring shouldn't focus so much on the negative or on, "Oh, if this person's a terrible employee, how am I going to get rid of that person?" If that happens, then you will have experienced properly terminating someone.

Jake Braun:

Is there anything else that we would like to ask Jessica?

Mirela Setkic:

We do have our favorite question of all times. Is there anything that you think that we should have asked you but we haven't?

Jake Braun:

Oh, the final interview question.

Mirela Setkic:

This is Jake's.

Jake Braun:

We're giving away a secret. No employees can listen to the podcast now.

Mirela Setkic:

I know.

Jake Braun:

Or future employees.

Mirela Setkic:

This is the hot sauce of interviews. When you are looking for a new employee, you ask them that question at the end.

Jessica:

I don't know, I think just overall my experience has been a positive one here. Looking back and reflecting on the almost year that I've worked here, I think it's been kind of like a learning experience for everyone. I think just a huge takeaway from this all is just be open. I think that goes for anybody who is an employee, who's maybe wanting to work at a marketing agency, or even just any small business. Even for small business owners, just being open about everything, I think, is just the main takeaway, probably, from our whole conversation.

Mirela Setkic:

I agree. Have an open mind.

Jake Braun:

Yeah, I think that's a good point to close out on here. Small business owners, really think about hiring that first employee but realize that while there might be some fears or some reservations, that it can really be what brings your company to the next level. Don't be so afraid of hiring that first employee or one of your first employees because it can be a great thing. I think that's what we saw here with Jessica.

Mirela Setkic:

Yes, and one last thing. When you do hire that first employee, you should trust the person. Let them do their job and let them use their secret sauce that they have and they can definitely change your life and your business. One last thing. I don't know if this is appropriate for a podcast but I want to say thank you to Jessica for being our kind of A1 since day one. Thank you for going on this crazy ride with us. We're going to miss you a lot. We've learned a lot from you. Hopefully we're going to see you go on to do great things. Maybe secretly deep inside of me I hope that Jessica comes back, she maybe applies for her job again.

Jake Braun:

Or even if she just wants to come back, make a guest appearance on the podcast.

Jessica:

Yeah, yeah.

Mirela Setkic:

Hopefully we will be doing so much better in the future, when Jessica comes back. That's really all I want to say is, like you said, Jessica, have an open mind. I want to thank you.

Jake Braun:

I would like to reiterate that as well. Thank you for everything you've done and thank you for being our first guest on the podcast.

Jessica:

Well, I definitely feel honored for being first guest. I will also be back, so I'll take you up on that invitation. Also, thank you to you guys. You guys took that leap of faith and hired me last year. I think it's been a good journey. I'm excited, even though I'll be watching from the sidelines now, to see where Kapok Marketing goes from here.

Mirela Setkic:

We're nervous. Hopefully we do a good job. I think we will. We have an amazing group of people who are staying behind so I think we are going to do a great job, or they are going to do a great job. Yeah, definitely, if you're ever back in town, come on down and we'll do another podcast.

Jake Braun:

Well, it's been a great second episode. Feel free to reach out to us if you have any questions or comments about anything we talked about today, or marketing in general. You can visit us on our website, KickinItWithKapok.com, or on social media. We're on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter as Kapok Marketing.
This has been Kickin' it with Kapok, brought to you by Kapok Marketing. Thanks for listening. We'll have something just as great for you next time.